For Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Intersex People from Christian Backgrounds

2. For Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Intersex People from Christian Backgrounds Whether you are in the church or no longer there, freedom2b is your safe space to connect with people who understand your journey. Monthly Meetings: 7pm, 2nd Friday of Every Month @ Healthy Communities Social Events and Gatherings Resources from a scientific, psychological and educated biblical perspective Online Community of over 1000 members www.freedom2b.org freedom2b Brisbane @freedom_2be

3. freedom2b has no agenda We don’t want you to go to church or leave the church. Each person has a different journey. We’re just here to find friends and support along the way. freedom2b respects your anonymity We wont out you or check you into Facebook (but feel free to do it yourself). You can share as much or as little as you wish. freedom2b is ano-cruising zone This is a safe space were people can connect with others like themselves. This is not a hookup site (you can get their number some other time).

5. Next Month’s Event Watch out for more information www.freedom2b.org freedom2b Brisbane

7. Genesis 2 – the creation account • Genesis 19 – Sodom & Gomorrah • Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 – Jewish Law • 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 & 1 Timothy 1:9-10 – lists of vices • Romans 1 – The “descent” passage What are the Clobber Passages?

8. The Genesis Account…??

9. The Genesis Account Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him." Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him. So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. Genesis 2:18-24 (NASB)

10. The Genesis Account What it doesn’t say: • It doesn’t say that deviations from Genesis is a sin (is being left handed a sin?) • It doesn’t mention homosexuality at all. • It doesn’t mention marriage at all. What it does say: • Companionship is important • Companionship with another human is better than companionship with an animal

11. Sodom & Gomorrah Some people believed and accepted this represents Sodom and Gomorrah…

12. Sodom and Gomorrah What do we read in the Bible? Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. And he said, "Now behold, my lords, please turn aside into your servant's house, and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way." They said however, "No, but we shall spend the night in the square." Yet he urged them strongly, so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he prepared a feast for them, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them." Genesis 19:1-5 (NASB)

13. Sodom and Gomorrah What is the real message? • Sodom and Gomorrah discusses gang rape - not loving gay relationships • Rape is an act of violence - not lust

14. Sodom and Gomorrah The bible never says that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality! Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Ezekiel 16:49 (NASB) Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one has turned back from his wickedness All of them have become to Me like Sodom, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah. Jeremiah 23:14 (NASB) When you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say,  ‘Even the dust of your town we wipe from our feet as a warning to you. Yet be sure of this: The kingdom of God has come near.’  I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town. Luke 10:10-12 (NIV)

15. Sodom and Gomorrah “I admit, there are a lot of gay folk who are Sodomites (and a lot of straight folk as well). Sodomites are rich and don’t share what they have with the poor. Sodomites have plenty and want more. While millions are hungry, homeless, and sick, Sodomites rush to build bigger homes, buy bigger cars, and own more property—putting their trust in safer stock portfolios and more secure retirement accounts”. Quote: Mel White

16. Jewish Law

17. Jewish Law You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22 (NASB) If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them. Leviticus 20:13 (NASB)

18. Jewish Law http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zhNiGlogQ

19. The Jewish Law But what about the verses immediately surrounding these passages? • No sex with menstruating women (18:19 & 20:18) • No mules, mixed crops, or mixed clothes (19:19) • No eating fruit from young trees (19:23) [No pineapples!] • No cutting your beard (19:27) • No tattoos (19:28) • No “unclean” food (20:25) And what of the punishment for these ‘sins’? Do they want that too?

21. Some Vices

22. What does the Bible say about vices? Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NASB) [The] law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching. 1 Timothy 1:9-10 (NASB)

23. Lists of Vices Meaning of “Malakois” (Translated “effeminate”) • Means “soft” like a clothe • Latin Vulgate (4th Century AD) & Wyclife bible (1400’s) translates it as “Idol Servants”

24. List of Vices Meaning of “Arsenokoitai” (translated as “homosexual”). • Only ever appears in the bible in those two lists. Never appears in other texts from the same time. • Lists don’t provide much context to figure out the meaning of the word. • “In fact, many men even commit the sin of Arsenokoites with their wives.” – Joannes IV Jejunator, 575 AD. Concatenation of “male” and “many (female) beds” • Perhaps an adulterous man who sleeps around? (Latin Vulgate, 4th Century) • From “lie with a male as one lies with a female” in Leviticus ?? • Can you understand “outhouse” from the sentence “I am going to go out of the house to get some milk”?

25. Roman descent passage

26. Roman’s Descent Passage For even though they knew God, they did not honour Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonoured among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. Romans 1:21-32

27. Roman’s Descent Passage Say’s homosexuality is the penalty for paganism This didn’t sound like me!! “The homosexuals I know have not rejected God at all; they love God and they thank God for his grace and his gifts. How, then, could they have been abandoned to homosexuality as a punishment for refusing to acknowledge God?” Rev. Dr. Louis B. Smedes

28. What does the ‘Romans Descent’ Passage mean? Says homosexuality is “unnatural”: • Just means unusual (“Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonour to him” 1 Corinthians 11:14 (NASB)) “Indecent” - Euphemism. • Just means sex. “Degrading passions” (or “Shameful lusts”): • Greek term usually used in reference to pagan sex orgies. This fits the context.

29. Romans Descent Passage What it says: • That the Roman public had turned away from God & begun to worship nature (paganism) • As such, they were engaging in cultish, pagan worship orgies • That this would lead to them turning on each other (interpersonal vices: greed, envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice, gossip, slander, insolent, arrogant, boastful, disobedient, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful) What it doesn’t say: • That mutually respectful same-sex relationships are sinful

30. Roman’s Decent Passage • Is not focused on homosexuality. This was just a passing comment in a long passage. • Is about how the Romans became so different from the Jews. • Is designed to promote a sense of superiority in the Jewish readers. • Romans 2 begins: “You have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things”.

31. When all is said and done… Any interpretation of Scripture that hurts people, oppresses people, or destroys people cannot be the right interpretation, no matter how traditional, historical, or exegetically responsible. There can be no debate about the fact that the church's stand on homosexuality has caused oppression, loneliness, self-hatred, violence, sickness, and suicide for millions of people. If the church wishes to continue with its traditional interpretation it must demonstrate, not just claim, that it is more loving to condemn homosexuality than to affirm homosexuals. Can the church show that same-sex loving relationships damage those involved in them? Can the church give compelling reasons to believe that it really would be better for all lesbian and gay Christians to live alone, without the joy of intimate touch, without hearing a lover's voice when they go to sleep or awake? Is it really better for lesbian and gay teenagers to despise themselves and endlessly pray that their very personalities be reconstructed so that they may experience romance like their straight friends? Is it really more loving for the church to continue its worship of "heterosexual fulfilment" (a "unbiblical" concept, by the way) while consigning thousands of its members to a life of either celibacy or endless psychological manipulations that masquerade as "healing?"

32. And finally… The burden of proof in the last twenty years has shifted. There are too many of us who are not ‘sick’, or ‘inverted’, or ‘perverted’, or even "effeminate" - but who just have a knack for falling in love with people of our own sex. When we have been damaged, it has not been due to our homosexuality - but to others' and our own denial of it. The burden of proof now is not on us, to show that we are not sick - but rather on those who insist that we would be better off going back into the closest. What will "build the double love of God and of our neighbour? Dale Martin

33. Questions?

34. Join us for tea & coffee (If you can help, $1 will help pay for food)